So I'm watching this town hall...

**R13** · August 11th, 2009, 03:34 PM

No one is arguing the legalities of it, just that it getting to be ridiculous. If they don't want to conduct them self in a mature, rational manner...then gtfo. If you're a Harvard Professor, you'd probably get arrested

Its coming from every end. You've got these lobbying groups/people, you got Falwells Liberty group, you got just plain idiots and you've got politicians...just an example....

"The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama?s ?death panel? so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ?level of productivity in society,? whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil."

Don't need to mention names, that sympathy line in there is a dead giveaway to who said it, if you haven't heard already. The blatant lies in this debate get dumber by the second....There's the "Death Panel", the funding for abortion, the 50,000 for sex-change operations and on and on. Wtf is wrong with people? If you oppose, oppose...but to make the stupidest claims you can think of? And there are some that actually believe it, that's what is sad about it.

You may not like him, but Olbermann pretty much owned Palin, Beck, Heather Blish(small town mom) and groups like these last night with the "Special Comment".

Countdown with Keith OlbermannCountdown with Keith Olbermann

**NotSoSilentBob** · August 11th, 2009, 03:44 PM

The righteous indignation from Brad and Jr. is amusing.

**NotSoSilentBob** · August 11th, 2009, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by R13

but to make the stupidest claims you can think of? And there are some that actually believe it, that's what is sad about it.

Kind of like 'Bush lied, people died' or 'Bush was responsible for 9/11'?

**R13** · August 11th, 2009, 03:47 PM

Hit the forum with some knowledge then Lynn.

**CoeburnCane** · August 11th, 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Gotch

One more thing about "free speech". I've read opinions of the various restrictions on free speech and if I'm not mistaken this type of thing has been specifically addressed and as I remember it a speaker has no particular "right" to be heard. In other words, yes, you can legally shout a speaker down.

Sometimes what is legally right isn't what is right by the token of common human decency & sense--which is what I think a lot of these organized protestors are lacking.

I mean, if we all met at the BSG Armory, rented it out for a public meeting to discuss anything...and we began to discuss the subject and someone came in and started shouting all of us down for nothing other than pure spite, and to disrupt the meeting so we couldn't discuss what we wanted in peace...that person may be in their rights "legally", but would you think much of that person or what they had to say? Are their actions in the right as far as etiquette goes? Could we take steps to remove that person from our meeting legally?

**Biggin** · August 11th, 2009, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gotch

One more thing about "free speech". I've read opinions of the various restrictions on free speech and if I'm not mistaken this type of thing has been specifically addressed and as I remember it a speaker has no particular "right" to be heard. In other words, yes, you can legally shout a speaker down.

ah but there is a catch
its called disorderly conduct and inciting a riot.

like i said, go to the next local PTA meeting and yell and shout and act like some of those protesters, and see how long you last before you are removed.

person A's right to free speech only extends to the next person's right.

so if person A is yelling and purposely trying to disrupt person B's peaceful demonstration, then his free speech is pinching the other person's right to peaceful organization.

**Biggin** · August 11th, 2009, 04:23 PM

but political sabotage like this isnt new

im not gonna go and look up how far back it goes, but i know it at least extends to Nixon's candidacy.
i dont remember the guy's name, but i do know he used to set up sabotages like this.

**Gotch** · August 11th, 2009, 04:25 PM

"No one is arguing the legalities of it"

Actually at least one poster, maybe two were.

I'm not arguing that it's civil, or that I agree with it, or that it's pretty. Just that it's within their rights and it's an incredibly dangerous thing to start eroding rights.

**Biggin** · August 11th, 2009, 04:31 PM

its funny how we are so concered about rights now, but it wasnt that big a deal when the patriot act was enacted.

i think before we can act like the government is great bout our rights, we have to have the patriot act repealed.

telling people they cant protest seems like a small issue compared to illegal wire taps and no knock warrants and surveilence without indictments.

**Gotch** · August 11th, 2009, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Biggin

ah but there is a catch
its called disorderly conduct and inciting a riot.

like i said, go to the next local PTA meeting and yell and shout and act like some of those protesters, and see how long you last before you are removed.

person A's right to free speech only extends to the next person's right.

so if person A is yelling and purposely trying to disrupt person B's peaceful demonstration, then his free speech is pinching the other person's right to peaceful organization.

It certainly does not fall under inciting a riot. It would fall under disorderly conduct under most normal conditions, but the high courts have repeatedly found that if a charge of disorderly conduct infringed upon the right to freedom of speech the law was not applicable.

I'm not sure about PTA meeting but a few local governments have lost large suits or been forced to settle for damages out of court due to ejecting loud protesters. Happened just recently in Minnesota.